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Thread: Face Based Family with only a Void Nested into a Generic Model Family

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    Member Joshua Kohl's Avatar
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    Face Based Family with only a Void Nested into a Generic Model Family

    We have a face based family consisting of only a void (creating a hole) that is nested into a generic model family. In the generic model family the face based void family is cutting other nested families without a problem. When we place the generic model family into a project environment those voids (holes) that were cutting in the family environment fine are not visible, if you select the family you can see the voids are there but they are not cutting like they do in the family.

    Can anyone provide some suggestions as to why the holes created by the voids are not visible in the project environment?

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    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    There are issues with Face Based Families and voids, being inside other families, AND CUTTING other families (not the parent family). I dont recall all of the rule,s besides "it typically doesnt work."

    Standard example: Our Healthcare Footwalls. The Countertop family is loaded in the footwall, and the face based sink was loaded in the footwall. FB sink cuts counter just fine. Load in to project, it fails to cut. So now the sinks get placed in the project, and they cut just fine even though the shared GM countertop is in another family.

    But its stupid.

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    Senior Member JBZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    But its stupid.
    There are some "solutions" that say to have the nested family NOT cut geometry in the family it's hosted into...That would be great except I haven't seen that work either, though the orange voids WILL show up in the project...

    It's still stupid

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    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    You can cut geometry in the Parent family, with a nested family, all day long (as long as you dont try to array it), im pretty sure. Its cutting other nested families, with families, that sucks.

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    Senior Member JBZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    You can cut geometry in the Parent family, with a nested family, all day long (as long as you dont try to array it), im pretty sure. Its cutting other nested families, with families, that sucks.
    Right, So isn't that going to be the solution: Nest the Voids into the Top Rail family, cut that, then nest that into the final combined family, voila?

    This image is using that method and it's from a project... I get that the non-cutting of a nested family once in the project sucks (AKA: doesn't work) but until "they" fix it this should suffice, no?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    That works as a solution to the software issue, but not as a practical use. That would mean the OP would have to make different families for different tracks with hole locations, which isnt worth it. At that point, he might as well make the voids in the track family itself. You also will have a failure even if you do it your way, if you try to array the face based family in the track family, which is the only real way to make it parametric, which is the only real way to make it a worthwhile solution.

    My honest answer? The hole doesnt need to be there. The Face Based Family can have a target drawn with model lines, and can achieve any placement/location tracking/API interactions that are based on knowing where the holes go. The only use for modeling holes at that granular level of detail is for clash detection, and i cant imagine wanting to clash every single conduit against every single track. Why? Its not exactly a high dollar collision on site. Guy needs to run conduit. Guy sees track. Guy drills track. Guy runs

    :::Shrug:::

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    Member Joshua Kohl's Avatar
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    Thank you guys for your suggestions, appreciate it!

    Putting the FB void in the project and cutting the tracks from there seems like the way to go if we end up needing the actual holes to show. After the original void didn't work like we intended we substituted a model line in the FB family and it worked like a charm in both the GM and project environments, its just that the actual hole "looked nicer" but the model line itself is more than adequate for showing the location of the physical hole.

    Just a little background as to why the hole (either actual or representative) has to be shown. It is because we manufacture prefabricated exterior walls panels and the holes are for lateral connections (wind load) between each panel which need to line up at the panel joint, with a pin or bolt being inserted thru the holes between the panels after the panel is erected on the building (seen in attached jpg). The holes are drilled in the tracks at our facility, if a mistake is made in the location and the holes don't line up when the panels get to the field that is extra time and money out of our pocket that didn't need to be spent.

    As far as making the hole locations parametric, that would a great time saver its just that due to differing studs locations between wall panels the hole spacing is not always a consistent spacing.

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    In response to this, though a separate challenge. I am trying to create a projecting brick pattern around a window. The pattern will vary in size. In attempting to do this, I have created a GM brick and placed it in a FB GM. The GM brick is arrayed horizontally, then vertically to create a projecting header pattern that will surround the window opening. I have built in parameters that allow me to resize in the project model as window size and surround sizes change. However, once loaded into the project, I can not find a way to cut the window opening. Is there a way to cut the window opening into the FB GM once it is loaded into the project? Click image for larger version. 

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