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Thread: Constraining Array Length/Depth on Pipe Accessory

  1. #1
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    Constraining Array Length/Depth on Pipe Accessory

    So, getting the chance to do a Process mechanical project in revit so all our disciplines are in revit and avoiding cadworx this project

    only draw back is we lack the content to compete, so a group of guys i work with have been building content as needed a we go

    There have been a few that stumped us along the way so we made them work for the time being and now I'm going back to make them as parametric/user friendly as possible

    The one that really has me stumped is a dresser coupler:
    Gibault Repair Couplings - Buy Gibault Repair Couplings Product on Alibaba.com


    The only thing i want as a type parameter is the length, then having everything else instance and driven off the pipe which it will inherit when dropped into a pipe


    SO...I can array the nut on for the rods fine(not a necessary detail but easy enough to do so i added it) the issue occurs when i try to array the rods and then constrain the length, they seem to be grouped and break down

    the array command in general ahs been very touchy, if the psychical rod is constrained at all i lose all ability to constrain it even within the array command (radius and count)

    it has been incredibly frustrating since its is such simple geometry, constraints and commands but I somehow have managed to really get stuck here

    I have tried all sorts of variations of nesting all extrusions, still didn't help

    Let me know if anyone has any suggestions, i would imagine this is a common issue in the fitting world? not sure, my family creation experience is fairly limited

    Flange, nut and rod, and just rod attached if anyone is confused on anything im trying to describe

    any help is appreciated
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    I can't be the only one to have this issue with fittings/accessories

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    Forum Co-Founder Alfredo Medina's Avatar
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    The task of creating a set of MEP families is not easy for anybody. It can consume a good amount of the time that you have available for the project. Specially if, as yourself, you are new to Revit and you start getting too much attention to the details of the object that you're making. In the end, those rods and nuts don't even matter too much in the whole picture of the project, do they? So, what matter is that you could make this family with the proper diameter and length, and with the proper connectors on both sides, so that the family connects properly to pipes, and schedules properly. If you get at least that, then move on to the next family. Otherwise you will be modeling forever... and your office is paid for the projects, not for the nuts in your families.

    Sorry for writing an answer that does not actually contain instructions on how to do the array. I could explain all that, but I thought that in this case it was necessary to make a general comment about how to make MEP families and not die in the attempt.

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    I understand that it isn't neccesary but the rods make it display correctly otherwise it will look like just another pipe section...I wouldn't be trying to do this if I did not find it necessary

    and since its process mechanical they like there 3d iso's so I need it to be modeled if possible and not just annotation/line work
    Last edited by wgfletch; May 29th, 2015 at 11:34 PM.

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    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Well, it HAS to be Nested, if you want the array to be parametric, and the items in it to be adjustable as well.

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    Forum Co-Founder Alfredo Medina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgfletch
    I understand that it isn't neccesary but the rods make it display correctly otherwise it will look like just another pipe section...I wouldn't be trying to do this if I did not find it necessary
    And why does it need to be an array?. The number of rods is always 3, is it not? So, to make it simple, if you want to have the rods in the family, why not just 3 simple extrusions at the correct places? A full parametric radial array requires several steps and levels of nesting, which might not be necessary in this small piece, considering that the number of items in the array and the angle of aperture of the array is not going to change. I would nest just one bar, with parameters for length, diameter, and distance to the center, and locate it 3 times around the cylinder. I am trying to keep the task simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wgfletch View Post

    The only thing i want as a type parameter is the length, then having everything else instance and driven off the pipe which it will inherit when dropped into a pipe
    If I understand your requirement correctly then I can see even the pipe is variable here and you require a parameter to control this as well. Because this variable drives the no. of nut require on the flange.
    So all in all you have three variables in your case:
    1. Pipe
    2. No. of nut on the flange which is controlled by array.
    3. The bolt length which requires a parameter to control based on every instance of using.
    You can control the 1st and 2nd variables however when it comes to the variable 3 (bolt length) varies on the size of the nut. Just to make it simple to you may not require 25mm bolt to hold a 5mm dia pipe.
    In my opinion, your situation requires a nested family where you can have various arrayed instances defined within the family and you can select based on the diameter of the pipe. On top of this you require one simple length parameter to control the length of the rod.

    Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shan1512 View Post
    If I understand your requirement correctly then I can see even the pipe is variable here and you require a parameter to control this as well. Because this variable drives the no. of nut require on the flange.
    So all in all you have three variables in your case:
    1. Pipe
    2. No. of nut on the flange which is controlled by array.
    3. The bolt length which requires a parameter to control based on every instance of using.
    You can control the 1st and 2nd variables however when it comes to the variable 3 (bolt length) varies on the size of the nut. Just to make it simple to you may not require 25mm bolt to hold a 5mm dia pipe.
    In my opinion, your situation requires a nested family where you can have various arrayed instances defined within the family and you can select based on the diameter of the pipe. On top of this you require one simple length parameter to control the length of the rod.

    Hope this helps.

    the original concept was to have the instance pipe drive all parameters BUT length

    Bolt/rod count i had plan to have as a few if statements with a few sizes for say if is <6" rod/botl count=6, 12" rod/bolt count=8 or something along those lines..which i think it was you basically were describing?

    the issue I was having is even with a nested array the second i constrained the length of the rods the array was breaking

    I will double check/try some of the mentioned methods maybe i need to take my nesting to one more "level"

    What i'm really trying to do is push the amount of process mechanical done within revit and proving to people these parametric families are far superior than any cadworx fittings (as far as ease of placement/scheduling goes) but i cannot do that without really solid content

    I want to build it once and build it right the first time basically i have no problem taking the time to do so with a lot of these components that are in every process project

    hopefully that explains/justifies my stubbornness

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    Forum Co-Founder Alfredo Medina's Avatar
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    So,... the number of rods does vary. I thought it was fixed to three elements. In that case,
    • you do need a parametric array, which requires levels of nesting, especially if you need to control the radius, number of items, and location (rotation) of the array, in regards to the center of the fixture.
    • The rod must be a nested family.
    • In the family of the rod, the length of the cylinder should be controlled by an instance parameter.
    • In the host family, after nesting the rod, do not constrain the 2 ends of the rod to reference planes. Just one end, to fix its location. The length itself must be associated to a local parameter in the host. (If you do constrain the 2 ends, this causes an error about constraints).
    • What you want to do about the diameter of the pipe driving other dimensions in the fixture family, is advanced. You need to learn about lookup tables.
    Last edited by Alfredo Medina; June 1st, 2015 at 12:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfredo Medina View Post
    So,... the number of rods does vary. I thought it was fixed to three elements. In that case,
    • you do need a parametric array, which requires levels of nesting, especially if you need to control the radius, number of items, and location (rotation) of the array, in regards to the center of the fixture.
    • The rod must be a nested family.
    • In the family of the rod, the length of the cylinder should be controlled by an instance parameter.
    • In the host family, after nesting the rod, do not constrain the 2 ends of the rod to reference planes. Just one end, to fix its location. The length itself must be associated to a local parameter in the host. (If you do constrain the 2 ends, this causes an error about constraints).
    • What you want to do about the diameter of the pipe driving other dimensions in the fixture family, is advanced. You need to learn about lookup tables.

    I no what a look up table is and how they work, i have never written one from scratch though

    are you sure i need one for a case like this? i was hoping to basically have one parameter drive all the nested families (ie pipe ) nest how ever deep i need to and then in the main family control the length

    I could have sworn i tried to fix it to one plane (rod length) and it was still giving me a hard time, I will have to continue to play with it though...sounds like with how deep this family is going to be I'm really going to just have to work through it at step at a time and break down literally where its breaking down..and most likely end up making more of what i see as a pipe fitting family

    sounds like i need to look into basically making a pipe fitting from scratch along with its lookup table..would be good to know anyways..off to google i go

    All great stuff though thanks everyone for the great responses

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