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Thread: Showing different cut patterns in existing vs. new phases?

  1. #1
    Member RsqPrincess's Avatar
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    Showing different cut patterns in existing vs. new phases?

    I'm working on a renovation project.

    In this project we're using both existing and new construction phases. the plan view Phase is "new construction", Phase Filter: "Show New + Existing".

    We have both masonry and concrete walls, each with their proper cut pattern. However, our company standards use different cut patterns for new vs existing, based on material:

    new concrete= solid gray
    existing concrete= concrete pattern

    new masonry= diagonal crosshatch
    existing masonry= diagonal up


    so my "new" walls' materials show up great.

    Using Phasing, Graphic Overrides tab, I understand how to control the cut pattern for "existing" elements - either with no override, or doing one entire override (which then shows allll cut items with the same overridden cut pattern)

    My question is: How can I show the existing cut patterns not only based on the material, but also with a different cut pattern than the cut patterns of the same wall type when it's "new". I'd really prefer not to have to make separate wall types for new vs existing if it can be avoided. Is this something that can be done with additional filters?

    In case im not making sense - I want my new concrete walls to show up with a gray cut pattern, but then when they are moved to "existing" phase, I want the pattern to automatically change to "concrete". at the same time, I want my new CMU walls to have a diagonal crosshatch cut pattern, but when they are moved to the "existing" phase, I want the pattern to change to "diagonal up"...


    Can this be done?

    Thanks for the help!

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    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    You cant do what you are after using Phase Overrides. If that particular graphic standard is THAT important to you, youre going to have to achieve it some other way, which is more than likely going to mean a compromise somewhere.

    Personally, i dont change hatches for new versus existing. I have the hatches based on materials, and everything existing is LIGHT gray on the plans, where everything new is black and bold.

    BTW, do you mean your Phase Filter is set to "Show Previous and New" which is the default Phase Filter? Keep in mind (i used to do this as well) if your Phases and Phase Filters are altered from OOTB, youll have to manually set your Phase Filters and Phases for any Linked Files you have, as they will no longer find the same phase filter as what you have in your project.

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    Member RsqPrincess's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply. That's frustrating.

    Unfortunately, the powers-that-be are insisting on keeping the cut pattern standards as described. so looks like I may be stuck compromising.

    I've switched companies this year - it would seem the phase filter name must have been edited prior to my start date; I didn't even realize it.
    For Phase Filters, we have:
    Show All
    Show Complete
    Show Demolition
    Show New + Existing
    Show Only Current Phase
    It hasn't caused me trouble yet, but I will certainly remember that.

    I've been given reign over the company's revit template file, so I can change it up if need be.

    Thanks!

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    Forum Addict jmk's Avatar
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    You'll have to experiment with filters. The problem is that filters can't use created/demolished phase information, so you have to supply/manually manage that information yourself. This likely means extra wall types, rigor with placement on worksets, or a user input parameter.

    I haven't had an issue with how linked consultant models display, but I have a project that has several architectural models linked together, and not only do the phase filter names have to be exactly matched the phase override settings have to match too, or the view displays as if "show all" is the filter selected.

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    Have you looked at using selection sets and filters? I haven't used them extensively, but it might eliminate the need for additional wall types. You would need to manually set up a selection set for "existing masonry" and another for "existing concrete" and create filters (per view or view template) to override the objects in the selection set. I did (limited) testing, and the filter appears to take precedence over the phase override settings (works even if you have a phase filter override applied).

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    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RsqPrincess View Post
    Thanks for the reply. That's frustrating.

    Unfortunately, the powers-that-be are insisting on keeping the cut pattern standards as described. so looks like I may be stuck compromising.

    I've switched companies this year - it would seem the phase filter name must have been edited prior to my start date; I didn't even realize it.
    For Phase Filters, we have:
    Show All
    Show Complete
    Show Demolition
    Show New + Existing
    Show Only Current Phase
    It hasn't caused me trouble yet, but I will certainly remember that.

    I've been given reign over the company's revit template file, so I can change it up if need be.

    Thanks!

    I did the same thing they had done, a few years back: I decided "Show Previous and New" was a stupid name, so i changed it. It works fine, as long as you AND all the consultants change it to the exact same thing. If you dont ALL change it, it starts to fail to work on "By Host View" settings, which you will notice REALLY fast on a renovation project.

    I personally love Filters, but using Filters to manage something thats already managed in the software (Phases) sucks. I would be rigorously trying to convince "the powers that be" that sometimes its not worth the fight, and they should let go of this one particular graphic.

    Having said that for software reasons, ill also point out my own personal "architectural opinion," which is that i dont ever want to see both existing and new stuff hatched. One of my previous firmed hatched existing conditions with a solid hatch, and i hated it. When everything existing is a light gray line (so you can still see the material layers) and everything new is bold and black, there is a clear delineation of whats new and whats existing, without having to memorize or refer to two different sets of hatch patterns, which is nasty.

    But, for the sake of discussion, lets assume you CANT change their minds:

    Keep in mind youre going to need multiple wall types AND multiple materials, so you can have the hatch patterns defined in the material compositions, since you dont want to have one cut pattern for all things that are existing. So two of each material that needs to look different, AND two wall types, AND managing the users to make sure they get the proper one in the proper place.

    I would get with someone who knows Dynamo, and see if they can build you a graph that reads the real Phase information, and makes those changes for you, so you dont have to teach the users to use these walls when new, and these OTHER walls when existing. Because... They will mess it up or forget to change some wall types, eventually.

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    Member EarthRevi's Avatar
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    I need to achieve something like this... Has Revit added another filter option? Is there a better solution than creating multiple wall type or overriding the graphic display?

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    I wanted something similar - show new walls with a solid fill to the structural frame but retain the wall assembly detail for dimension snapping to structural elements - the problem being that this detail disappeared when applying a graphic override. Wasn't so important on existing walls when on the "Show complete" Phase I wanted existing walls with gray lines.
    Was playing with Phasing and ordinary Graphic overrides and filters unsatisfactorily. My work around which seems to work so far (although havent fully studied the ramifications of it acrosss the drawing set) is apply a cut pattern to the Default wall type used under structure on the wall types. Means it applies to everything of course but it retains the detail I want with wall lining, cavity and cladding cut patterns while showing the structure with the desired fill. In the Phasing Graphic Overrides I then applied overrides to the existing phase which mean these dont show and no override on the New phase and then on the Phase filters tab for "Show complete" have the Existing phase with overrides shown but New walls "By Category". Seems to work OK
    .

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    I havent read all of the responses to this, so forgive me if I repeat something already said.

    You will notice in your phase filters that there is a replacement for materials existing/demolished/new
    You will need to erase the material replacements. This will keep the ORIGINAL (or filter modified) hatch patterns for the elements in place.
    By default in the phase filters Autodesk have put these material replacements in place. They really suck because it means that a door, wall or column all have the same hatch pattern regardless of material as it is the phase filter that over rides it. Also there is a heirachy in place between phase filters and view replacement filters and you need to be careful that one is not over riding the other. I can not, at this very moment, remember which over rides which, but if you are thinking that it SHOULD work, but isnt, check your filters.

  10.    #10
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    I entered the Revit Forum to look for a solution to almost exactly the same phasing graphics issue.
    I don't see any responses yet and it has been over 3 years. Our Standards differ from yours in that New and Existing cut patterns are similar, except Existing is Halftone. If there was a way to choose "by object style" for the Cut Pattern in the Material "Phase - Exist", that may solve it, but the choice is None or a specific pattern.

    Have you come up with a solution since you posted this?

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