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Thread: Attaching walls to floors from linked file

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    Lightbulb Attaching walls to floors from linked file

    Hello,

    I'm working on a multi-storey building and we have separate models. Right now I need to attach the walls (which is in my file) to the floor slab (structural linked file), the slab is really complicated so setting a workplane to trim the wall wont solve. I thought of using copy/monitor, however, this would cause the floors to overlap when both models are synced to the central model (one in my model and the other in the structural model). Any suggestions? Thanks

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    Edit profile of the wall, pick line on the linked model.
    If it's even more complicated, create an in place model, only a void inside and cut the wall with the void before finishing the model.

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    We typically have floors in both the arch and structural models because so many revit tools need a floor. So I would have the floors in your model, typically the Arch is responsible for dimensions, ADA slopes, recessed slab locations, etc. so it just makes sense to have them in your model. And it solves your problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdbrownaia View Post
    We typically have floors in both the arch and structural models because so many revit tools need a floor. So I would have the floors in your model, typically the Arch is responsible for dimensions, ADA slopes, recessed slab locations, etc. so it just makes sense to have them in your model. And it solves your problem.
    Thank you for the suggestion. However, wouldn't that mean that I will end up with twice the amount of floor slabs when the schedule is exported from the central model, since Revit would count my overlapped slabs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhip View Post
    Thank you for the suggestion. However, wouldn't that mean that I will end up with twice the amount of floor slabs when the schedule is exported from the central model, since Revit would count my overlapped slabs?
    There are ways around that, you can put it in a "temporary" phase by making it the same phase in both "creation phase" and "demolition phase".
    As schedules are done by phase you can easily have it filtered out simply by changing the phase (or even put it in "existing" creation phase) as this way it will not show in the schedule

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    the structural quantities are extracted from the structural model, so our estimating group knows not to look for the concrete numbers in the arch model. We have duplicate columns often, sometimes beams, we need to design the slab edges for brick ledges, so all that information may exist twice. Same with light fixtures, some electrical equipment, how about toilets and sinks, there are just too many things Arch has to control dimensions too to have them not live in the arch model. So its just a question of communication as to which models to look to for which scope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdbrownaia View Post
    the structural quantities are extracted from the structural model, so our estimating group knows not to look for the concrete numbers in the arch model. We have duplicate columns often, sometimes beams, we need to design the slab edges for brick ledges, so all that information may exist twice. Same with light fixtures, some electrical equipment, how about toilets and sinks, there are just too many things Arch has to control dimensions too to have them not live in the arch model. So its just a question of communication as to which models to look to for which scope.
    Amen to that. I had a team once insist that structural walls belonged in the structural model and not in the architectural model. Placing doors was... interesting (actually, no, it was a pain in the butt).

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMcDowellJr View Post
    Amen to that. I had a team once insist that structural walls belonged in the structural model and not in the architectural model. Placing doors was... interesting (actually, no, it was a pain in the butt).
    Haha, speaking of pain in the butt, my team now wants me to manually adjust the profile of every wall so they match the slab/beams above.

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    Conceptually the idea of one element to represent that element anywhere among a project's models is a reasonable goal, something to strive for. After all why wrestle with many when one can suffice, less to keep track of or worry about.

    The reality we live in is that a lot of design elements have multiple representations in different discipline's scope of work. There are a lot of abstractions in our work. It's an aspect of the human mind that may elude artificial intelligence (unless we are a computer simulation ourselves)? Revit is great at reality but it is terrible at abstraction. Take groups, for example, a typical unit plan is the same in our view regardless of floor to floor height. Revit sees a group whose walls are taller as different. We easily accept the difference as irrelevant...Revit can't...yet anyway.

    FWIW, my own instinct is not to side with abstraction in this case. A taller floor to floor height probably means there will be other subtle model differences in the same unit...but I digress... In my own experience abstraction is generally engaged to avoid the labor associated with being explicit. I don't wish to seem argumentative. Abstraction can be very effective. A single sentence can create a great deal of value and reduce documentation labor/effort tremendously. Witness statements like "all walls are X unless noted otherwise". A good number of still valid old school habits are born of such abstractions. Of course success depends heavily on how well we declare those otherwise elements...

    As such, it's not unreasonable to have intentional redundancy for items that more than one discipline is responsible for. Where that occurs it is important that the documentation each discipline creates references the other discipline's role in these elements relationships.

    I think of construction documents as careful technical story telling...the best documents tell the story accurately for the intended audience, but in a way that doesn't alienate anyone else. If we compare the process to the telephone game where a story gets told and potentially devolves into something unrecognizable the more it is retold we must strive to make sure the redundancy we choose to have does not make the game a reality. Where redundancy is chosen we must make sure ours matches theirs as long as the redundancy exists.

    [soapbox mode - stepped off]
    Last edited by Steve_Stafford; November 25th, 2019 at 06:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdbrownaia View Post
    the structural quantities are extracted from the structural model, so our estimating group knows not to look for the concrete numbers in the arch model. We have duplicate columns often, sometimes beams, we need to design the slab edges for brick ledges, so all that information may exist twice. Same with light fixtures, some electrical equipment, how about toilets and sinks, there are just too many things Arch has to control dimensions too to have them not live in the arch model. So its just a question of communication as to which models to look to for which scope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Stafford View Post
    ...A taller floor to floor height probably means there will be other subtle model differences in the same unit...but I digress... In my own experience abstraction is generally engaged to avoid the labor associated with being explicit. ... Witness statements like "all walls are X unless noted otherwise". A good number of still valid old school habits are born of such abstractions.
    Slight tangent: How do you handle things like shear walls, where OSB is added to the wall assembly? Do you include a separate wall type for the shear walls, or just use your typical wall (say UL U419) and ignore the sheathing in the architectural model?

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