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Thread: Link Placeholders in Template?

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    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    Question Link Placeholders in Template?

    Hello RFO, question regarding having Link Placeholders in your template. When you Link in a sacrificial model, what positioning option do you use on each one? Do you pick OtO just to place it, then select Shared Coordinates when you swap the placeholder with the actual model? Or do you pick Shared Coordinates for the sacrificial placeholder link?

    As an MEP firm we are usually not the ones who drive the origin, so we always use Shared Coordinates, and even then we usually have to manually override Share Coordinates anyways for BIM coordination purposes. Before I strip my template down and rebuild it, I wanted some opinions on the matter.

    We only have an architectural placeholder link for now. It's something I set up a while back and never completed it with other links and now I'm ready to have placeholders for structural, architectural interior, MEP design model, and structural garage links. Ready to get all my View Templates and Sheets set up and looking good.

    Thanks in advance.

    -TZ

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    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Mine are all in By Shared Coordinates. But you can always select a Link Instance and move it one way or the other, so it doesnt matter.

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    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    Thanks Aaron. Quick follow up question, more regarding how Revit "sees" the links: if I bring in these sacrificial links as Shared Coordinates and I start a new project, open Manage Links and select each link and use "Reload From...", does it automatically change the Shared Coordinates? If the Link is way off in any X, Y or Z value, can I unshare the coordinates, move the link into place that matches our levels and scope boxes, then Acquire SC's again? Or do I have it all bass-ackwards? Thanks again.

    -TZ

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    Its not going to automatically fix anything. But thats true regardless of how you link in the Placeholder Links. If the coordinates are wrong, they are wrong, and the model will end up out in space. Then you have to fix the coordinates, in one of the files, and reload. And if the SC's arent aligned when you hit reload, itll probably give you the *their coords arent aligned, default positioning will be used" message, and put it somewhere random. I dont recall, exactly. Doesnt matter, though, just takes a few minutes to fix the coordinates.

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    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    Do you remember when you showed me how to move a link in place, then acquire Shared Coordinates? Rather than link in Origin to Origin and move our Levels, Scope Boxes, etc? I'm wanting to make that kind of the default - where we don't have to move our Levels, scope Boxes, etc "to" the Links location, and instead move the link "to" our Template's "starting point" where are levels, scope boxes, etc are pre-set, and then Acquire Shared Coordinates. We only edit the Links' SC's if we have to and while it's more often than we'd like it to be, in most cases we really don't have to and where ever the Link winds up in our project is just fine. That make sense? Hopefully I'm not too far off here in my thinking. I may very well be thinking about it too hard and is probably simpler than I am imagining.

    -TZ

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    Mr. Revit OpEd
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    I favor linking placeholders using Auto - Origin to Origin. The Revit model to model relationship only needs that to function, completely apart from a site relationship. If the site becomes an issue and architecture defines shared coordinates then using Acquire Coordinates resolves it and there is no precedent "This model already shares coordinates" issue.

    With 2020 linked files using shared coordinates are "pinned" and won't move unless the shared relationship is disabled first.

    FWIW, I'm setting up projects now without involving Publish Coordinates anymore because it isn't available to BIM 360 projects primarily but also because most of the time I don't control the other files that need publishing. It's still useful when all the files are all in-house but then a BIM360 project in-house can't use it so...it's dead to me.

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    I always link a placeholder and any new central underlay model origin to origin, then acquire coordinates once the link is replaced. I then manually do the levels and grids with copy/monitor. Now everything is properly sync'd, including the origin.

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    Forum Addict tzframpton's Avatar
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    Thanks Steve and Peter.

    Steve - that's the way I have it set up now. If that's the way you do it, then I can't be wrong. Between you and Aaron I think I'm on the same page.

    Peter - that's the way I have been doing it but then Aaron showed me a much better way if using Shared Coordinates. One of those "Oh... DUH!" moments for sure. Just easier to pull the link into place, then acquire SC's, if SC's is what you'll use. Origin to Origin, if that is in fact the absolute coordinate to go from, then yes - you have to move everything. Aaron taught me that if you use SC's then Origin to Origin doesn't matter. (Correct me if I'm wrong here Aaron, if you read this.)

    -TZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by tzframpton View Post
    Thanks Steve and Peter.

    Steve - that's the way I have it set up now. If that's the way you do it, then I can't be wrong. Between you and Aaron I think I'm on the same page.

    Peter - that's the way I have been doing it but then Aaron showed me a much better way if using Shared Coordinates. One of those "Oh... DUH!" moments for sure. Just easier to pull the link into place, then acquire SC's, if SC's is what you'll use. Origin to Origin, if that is in fact the absolute coordinate to go from, then yes - you have to move everything. Aaron taught me that if you use SC's then Origin to Origin doesn't matter. (Correct me if I'm wrong here Aaron, if you read this.)

    -TZ
    Sorry I'm not sure I understand what you are suggesting that is different than my post. I don't have a model in my placeholder model, every new project is completely different, so it doesn't really matter where the architectural model winds up, I don't need to pull it to align with anything, except for a couple crop boxes and a couple template sections.

    As of 2019 at least, the origin can't be moved (or even located, but I believe they changed that). The only way to have the origins line up is by inserting a link origin-to-origin. It is not necessary to have origins line up if using shared coordinates, but it is nice. Less room for future error, including on the part of the architect.

    The way Revit handles coordinates (especially sharing) is admittedly very confusing, but I have never had an issue working like this so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tzframpton
    (Correct me if I'm wrong here Aaron, if you read this.)
    I dont particularly want to get in to a debate about methods, when there are multiple methods to get to the same result. Because inevitably someone is going to tell me my attitude sucks, or im a know it all, and it gets old.

    What i will say, is: The Shared Coordinate system and the Internal origin system dont care about each other, and only even really know about each other with relativity. You cant really "control" what another firm does WRT the Internal Origin, because you dont know how their template was set up. And- if you are using Shared Coordinates- you shouldnt/dont have a need to force people to align with your Internal Origin.

    But, not everyone even uses Shared Coordinates, which is the point. You have to decide which world you live in.

    I always use them, and the coordinates always have to be set up/fixed on every job, regardless. I (personally) dont EVER use Acquire or Publish. I use Specify Coodinates at a Point, in every model, and i make them all match, and it works great. if people use AC or PC, thats awesome. If they dont use SC at all, thats awesome. If they pin/unpin and move Base Points or Survey points, thats awesome. I just dont do any of that.

    FOR MY TEAMS: The placeholders are linked BSC (but it doesnt matter). The SC's will most likely break when a consultants model is reloaded, unless they are set using SCaP at the onset prior to being reloaded, which i try to do. If it doesnt happen, no biggie, we do it with SCaP later. The fix is just a few minutes, regardless.
    Last edited by Twiceroadsfool; December 23rd, 2019 at 05:48 PM.

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