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Thread: Door family strategy

  1. #21
    Moderator cellophane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modderhoop View Post
    Im interested in your manufacturer doors, can i download them somewhere?

    Here are 2 examples of the doors we use here.

    And i have made my own door family's once, for wooden doors witch we make ourself in the workshop.
    Here's the thread with the older doors in it. I've been using them here for a while and they work great. https://revitforum.org/showthread.ph...mes-v4-(R2015)

  2. #22
    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robp View Post
    and this is what it boils down to IMHO. if manufacturer stuff meets your needs (and the end user) then fine. If creating your own family meets your needs then fine. There isnt a one-size fits all answer, most people will find a bespoke family is best for them but there is certainly a market out there for manufacturer created families especially if they get scheduled out via COBie and you need to include manufacturer parameters anyway.
    Just two things to clarify:

    1. There is special "manufacturer parameters," even for COBie. There is data that manufacturers put IN parameters, and there's nothing stopping you from taking the DATA that KONE puts in their elevator component, and entering it in to a generic component, if KONE is the basis of design.

    2. Just to clarify after Chad's post, our new doors are very very different from those old doors. The new ones get WAY closer to manufacturers representations. Those old ones shoe the general framework I discussed in an earlier post, but they weren't anywhere close to the current ones.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    there's nothing stopping you from taking the DATA that KONE puts in their elevator component, and entering it in to a generic component, if KONE is the basis of design.
    agreed. but in some cases doing all that work of creating and entering information into parameters is more than simply using the KONE elevator component in the first place. Like i said i dont think there is a one size fits all answer.

  4. #24
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    Guess the biggest difference here is that i work at the contractor. (dont know for sure if no one does here, but i would assume?)
    I obviously make some generic content, mostly for mechanical ventilation, electricity, and heating. because that are objects where only the location and general size is important for our project partners to start modeling.

    The reason that i do not make my own generic door familys is that:
    - takes less time to edit, since everything is already as it has to be,
    - less errors, i check the manufacturer familys once to know if the size of the wall cutout and the profile is right, after that its just drop in and your done, this makes it easier for me to manage the familys in the 4-6 projects i work on at once.
    - our revit library is still work in progress, as is our template
    - because i work at a contractor, i already know the door manufacturer before i start modeling them,
    - im the only person thats decently capable to make revit familys in my company, so i dont have as much time to work on generic family's as someone who is hired for making revit content,

    Of course as said before, i am more than willing to make my own familys, most doors we use have things in common, but when theres already other good content around why would i.

    I dont know how this is in the other country's, but in the Netherlands we have the NLRS the dutch revit standards, a lot of manufacturers at least put their data parameters in their family consistant with these rules. Yes sometimes i have problems with parameters that i would like but are missing (only 1 manufacturer so far, i made generic wall cutout familys, so i could still make drawings for the workers to work from), but overall they work great.

    Again, maybe in other country's its different, but overall the dutch manufacturer family's that i have worked with do a good job at making family's witch are easy to use and customize. And of course there are some materials and other unwanted stuff in some of them, but i dont find this to outweights the time that i need to spend on making my own. Also we dont work in the collabrate function of revit, its just our model, that only our partners get IFC or RVT files from to reference their own drawings, where not that far into BIM yet that the extra junk in the projects makes any difference in the quality of our models.

    I think this is a good time to end with this discussion on my end here, everyone has their own taste in Revit and that of course doesnt change that quickly. If you feel good doing it and get good results on the construction site, where all happy.
    Last edited by Modderhoop; February 11th, 2020 at 04:43 PM.

  5. #25
    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robp View Post
    agreed. but in some cases doing all that work of creating and entering information into parameters is more than simply using the KONE elevator component in the first place. Like i said i dont think there is a one size fits all answer.
    I guess that depends on how you look at model quality: It being "more work" isnt an apples to apples comparison, because their component is such a raging pile of donkey sh*t that it shouldnt even be in a building model. So you dont end up at the "same result" when you compare the two roads. The KONE component also supersedes the ability to schedule doors properly, and fire rate walls properly (because it requires one massive wall full height) and so on.

    Same with doors.

    And yes (again): I also work with contractors. Good door components should work wonderfully for contractors AND design. Manufacturers stuff may *get the job done in a hurry* to make a model look okay for 3d coordination, but when you need to put together a real door schedule using 5 different vendors, things get nasty really quick.

  6. #26
    Member Modderhoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    I guess that depends on how you look at model quality: It being "more work" isnt an apples to apples comparison, because their component is such a raging pile of donkey sh*t that it shouldnt even be in a building model. So you dont end up at the "same result" when you compare the two roads. The KONE component also supersedes the ability to schedule doors properly, and fire rate walls properly (because it requires one massive wall full height) and so on.

    Same with doors.

    And yes (again): I also work with contractors. Good door components should work wonderfully for contractors AND design. Manufacturers stuff may *get the job done in a hurry* to make a model look okay for 3d coordination, but when you need to put together a real door schedule using 5 different vendors, things get nasty really quick.
    I agree on that last part, it can be somewhat annoying. but so far i got away with combine parameters. the most i have had is 2 different manufacturers, tho we try to keep with one manufacturer per project, but that very much depends on your project and the scale of it.

  7. #27
    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modderhoop View Post
    I agree on that last part, it can be somewhat annoying. but so far i got away with combine parameters. the most i have had is 2 different manufacturers, tho we try to keep with one manufacturer per project, but that very much depends on your project and the scale of it.
    Guarantee you spend more time working with Combine Parameters, than i do "editing a panel types parameters," lol.

  8. #28
    Forum Co-Founder Alfredo Medina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Guarantee you spend more time working with Combine Parameters, than i do "editing a panel types parameters," lol.
    Why does the "discussion" have to be "resolved" with a "LOL" or "LMAO", as if the other users' opinions or preferences were a reason for laughter? There are many valid ways to use the software, as the other user already said, trying to close the "discussion".

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    Senior Member DavidLarson's Avatar
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    You should just listen to Aaron. His doors just work.

    I reverse engineered what was posted a while back. Mine are a somewhat simplified version that fits my company's needs. Nested frames, panels & hardware are all in there. Then I built windows much the same. Cabinets too. Manufacturer's stuff is garbage through and through.

    But clients never change their minds at the last minute do they? Surely putting in that much time to make schedules work across multiple manufacturers just to change it 17 times in one week won't blow your budget. I mean that never happens. There is no reason whatsoever to have a non specific family that is highly flexible and capable of handling any situation you ask of it. And there is also no chance at all that a company will ever go out of business, be bought out, suffer a fire, etc.

  10. #30
    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfredo Medina View Post
    Why does the "discussion" have to be "resolved" with a "LOL" or "LMAO", as if the other users' opinions or preferences were a reason for laughter? There are many valid ways to use the software, as the other user already said, trying to close the "discussion".
    If you must know, i had an *lol* in that particular response, because the "entire" conversation (summed up for dramatic effect) went like this:

    OP: How should i make doors?
    Me: Here is a method to make doors that works in all cases, and saves bunches of time on projects
    Modd: Manufacturers Doors work just as good

    ( long discussion ensues )

    Me: Making manufacturers doors all play nice with each other has complexities to it
    Modd: Oh, i generally get away with only having one or two manufacturers on a job.

    Yes, i found it funny. Hilarious even. Thats not a slam or a dig on the method, at all! As i told Modd earlier, if they are happier with manufacturer content, awesome. But i started out in the thread outlining a strategy that stands the test of time, and have been replying in kind, for anyone reading. Sure, i can download that KONE elevator, too. And it might work okay *this one time,* or *that one time.* But to then through a clause in at the end that "well it works because i have to make a schedule combine parameters, and i try to limit the number of manufacturers on a job..." suddenly we arent really talking about viable, for a LOT of people reading the thread.

    Modderhoops method works AWESOME for them, and thats fantastic! But if Patrick does ANY of the following: Works in Design, works on projects where more than 2 door manufacturers can get spec'd, works on jobs with both overhead and man doors, works on jobs with both AL and HM manufacturers, needs to generate a real architectural door schedule, etc, etc, etc, then using manufacturers content isnt really a viable option.

    And yes, at THAT point, i found it funny. So i added a "lol." "BTW," adding in a "lot" of "quotes" isnt "adding" any more "value" than me adding a "lol" except at least the "lol" actually "conveyed" a "feeling" i was actually "feeling." Not sure what all the "quotes" are meant to "imply."

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