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Thread: Leading architecture firms pen open letter to Autodesk over rising costs...

  1.    #51
    Forum Addict sdbrownaia's Avatar
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    A couple of observations then hopes that come to mind from reading the letters and this thread...

    As an early adopter(Architect) who saw the parametric change engine promise and deliver on changing my day to day workflow from one of drafting lines and arcs to represent pieces and parts, to creating pieces and parts that worked together as a building made me love my job and gave me a passion for what could be. Revit gave a small firm the ability to compete with the big firms back then.

    When Autodesk bought Revit, I feared something of that promise would die. Over the years much of the vision of the original product and its creators has died in my opinion, however the dna is there to sustain it. It has been clear to me from the beginning of the Autodesk purchase that they sought to leverage it more then to fulfill it(maybe they didn't understand it). It almost appeared they couldn't develop it due to all the competing interests inside Autodesk. Only need to look at the site tools to be evidence of that. What have we seen since, interop, interop and more interop. That is not, was not the vision of Revit. There is nothing "revise instantly" about interop with civil 3d or formit.

    So my encouragement for Autodesk would be to revisit the original vision of the creators of Revit and either affirm it and provide dedicated development to achieve that vision or clarify what your vision for the tool is. And state that honestly, so we can make decisions based on that.

    Plenty has been said about the modeling tools, so I'll try not to repeat all of those except to say that its disheartening for someone like myself who has devoted hundreds if not thousands of hours promoting Revit, teaching revit, working with Autodesk to make it better to be told that certain tools that clearly still don't work are "done being developed" and no longer on the roadmap.

    A concern I have is with how Autodesk collects our concerns and feedback. I've shown year after year to new Autodesk employees in various settings different long standing issues and each time the person seems surprised by the workarounds needed or how the tool is broken. This doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy that the right people know what they need to know.

    Too just confirm some of the main items that if addressed would go a long way to adding value.
    • Stairs and Railings just don't work as illustrated by others.
    • Groups don't work(without tremendous care and training) as a true "repeatable unit(ie apartment, guestroom, creation tool".
    • Why the ceiling tool and floor tool cannot have the exact same capability as the roof tool after years and years of asking(wanna talk low hanging fruit, the code is there and it works)
    • Wall/Floor sweeps materials not showing in schedules(totally unacceptable).
    • Site tools, Architects design sites, not civil engineers, civil 3d is not the solution.


    I do hope that Autodesk puts significant effort into making Revit continue as the best product(which I still believe it is) for the AEC industry available. I do think the industry is ripe for another disruptive technology and the conditions Autodesk is setting up remind me exactly of acad r14/softdesk v8 days and the mandate on small firms to move to autocad 2000 which is the sole reason the firm I was at at the time decided to look at Revit 1.0.

    History repeats itself if we don't learn from it....

    I do think and know that there are really good people working at Autodesk who want to make the best software they can! I hope they get the support and resources they need to do just that. And I'm very glad to see the dialog happening as it is on the forum.

  2.    #52
    Member anthonyB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmk View Post
    Many of my pet peeves relate to the family editor and how those families can be scheduled.

    The major items are:
    ...
    I'll probably think of more...
    Yes to all!

  3.    #53
    Member anthonyB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdbrownaia View Post
    A couple of observations then hopes that come to mind from reading the letters and this thread...

    ... its disheartening for someone like myself who has devoted hundreds if not thousands of hours promoting Revit, teaching revit, working with Autodesk to make it better to be told that certain tools that clearly still don't work are "done being developed" and no longer on the roadmap.
    .
    Dang!

    Are you saying that items are not listed in the published roadmap are off the table?

  4.    #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Hey All,
    I wanted to take a moment here to thank all of you for the time you've taken, and the constructive passion you've brought, in voicing your thoughts and ideas on this thread.

    As I said earlier in the thread, we won't be diving in and responding to all of the great ideas here. We are listening here, among many other areas, and will be talking more publicly about the path ahead in the coming weeks.

    Keep it coming, good or bad; just try and keep it constructive.

    -Kyle
    I'm sorry Kyle, but I don't think that's good enough. It's just more of the same from Autodesk.

    Can Autodesk commit to open, public and live events or consultations where users can join and actually speak about issues they are having? Half of the time I use the software, I'm convinced that the development team has never worked in an architecture office and isn't working with architects (or if they are - ones who aren't using a bunch of extra extensions/plugins to compensate for missing features). You can point to the Ideas forum but (a) how many revit users even know it's there or how to find it, and (b) I eventually found my way there just now and the Latest of 19 "future consideration" post is from 2017, with many of the 2016 ideas nowhere to be seen in the software (Paul Aubin's FG/BG hatches not withstanding). The Latest of 55 "Under Review" is a singular 2019 with the rest from 2017, and then "gathering support" is... 8,000+?? I think it's safe to say the platform is stale and neglected. Of the "Implemented" (most of which are 2019 or earlier) some of them have so few votes (2 votes?) that it's almost guaranteed that the development team just went and found suggestions that matched what they did in order to make it appear as though user feedback is guiding development. Sure, that's a cynical hot-take but can you blame me? We're in the future Kyle. I'd like to hear an explanation for how ideas with hundreds of votes in 2016 were left to die and single-vote posts from 2019 made it into the software fairly quickly.

    But I digress. I think the important thing for Autodesk to consider, moving forward, is to actually sit down and do roundtable discussions with real-life architects. It can be virtual of course - now that a huge amount of the world is set up to video conference, you could easily start to invite sign-ups for roundtables to just discuss the software with the people that use it and listen to what they have to say about it.

    Whatever it is you decide about the path ahead in the "coming weeks" (how many weeks Kyle? 4? 6? 30? 120?) it needs to be a departure from whatever you've done in the past - because repeating what Autodesk has always done will just lead to more of the same, and it's clear that there needs to be a change.

  5.    #55
    Senior Member HansLammerts's Avatar
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    A lot of Revit whises, complaining and looking back in history if i may say so.

    "The future to any of the product form the Autodesk AEC suite seem to be "..outcome-based design driven by analysis .."

    I do think this sounds like an entirely new fresh platform being thought about. Not Revit, not AutoCAD, not Inventor. Something else. Maybe Autodesk is talking about 'Forge' in a vague manner? Forge is the only thing tham comes close to the description, imo.

    In a attempt to look forward.
    Last edited by HansLammerts; August 7th, 2020 at 03:09 PM.

  6.    #56
    Autodesk Kyle's Avatar
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    Thanks for probing for more detail here @guitarchitect. I was a bit non-committal simply because some of the decisions are still in-flight. Was just on a call with the rest of our leadership team on these topics when I saw this post. Hopefully the below helps.
    Quote Originally Posted by guitarchitect View Post
    Can Autodesk commit to open, public and live events or consultations where users can join and actually speak about issues they are having?
    Yes. We are working on rolling out a series of just these sorts of events. We'll likely use a platform like Youtube Live to facilitate them, and they'll be similar to the sort of events we've done at the RTC/BiLT conferences in the past. They will be part of a broader set of engagements we do, which as I mentioned earlier we'll be announcing shortly. I promise I'm not trying to dodge anything here, just making sure that I only provide accurate commitments.
    Quote Originally Posted by guitarchitect View Post
    I'd like to hear an explanation for how ideas with hundreds of votes in 2016 were left to die and single-vote posts from 2019 made it into the software fairly quickly.
    Sure. Wrote all about that over on this post. Glad to answer any specific questions you have there, and we're always open to suggestions on how we can be better here.
    Quote Originally Posted by guitarchitect View Post
    But I digress. I think the important thing for Autodesk to consider, moving forward, is to actually sit down and do roundtable discussions with real-life architects.
    We do this today. Amy Bunszel, in her response to the letter, described the efforts nicely:
    Engaging in open dialogue with customers remains fundamental to how we plot our path forward. We do this through forums like Revit Ideas, Revit user groups, and customer executive councils. We bring customers into our offices worldwide to test new features and have made it standard practice for our agile scrum teams to include several customers in their bi-weekly reviews to provide feedback. We also make the Revit roadmap publicly available.

    While we absolutely do all of the above, it's clear we can do better to 1) cast a wider net in our engagement efforts, spanning the full size spectrum of design practices and 2) better leverage the modern communications tech stack to better scale what we're already doing. Our plan moving forward is to try and address the 2 items I mentioned, and we'd welcome ideas from the community on how we can be better here.
    Quote Originally Posted by guitarchitect View Post
    Whatever it is you decide about the path ahead in the "coming weeks" (how many weeks Kyle? 4? 6? 30? 120?)
    The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy teaches me that proper answer to this question is 42. But seriously, we're working on a set of more formal commitments that should come out in the next 2-3 weeks, the more detailed blog posts (nerding out on technical topics) and interactive events will start to hit the Revit Blog in the next 2 weeks, and our smaller scale group engagements are already starting to get scheduled.

    Thanks for the passion and feedback.

    -Kyle

  7.    #57
    Moderator Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    AND another one that was annoying me today (I now keep an eye on all the things I was already used too, that are still very weird)

    Every time you open the filters window all the columns are back to their default width and that is for some reason a equal division between all the columns but the name no matter how wide the window itself is.
    As you can see on the image my names are reasonably long and every time I need to turn a filter on or off I have to drag the width of the first column to be able to read the last part. Sure I can just make the window itself larger (about 2,5 time larger will do the trick, but that is just weird as all the columns get very large even the ones that 'just' have a tick box.

    So, for them to just stay as I set them the previous time would be great and keep that setting between sessions as well please.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    and make this changable in width as well please

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Robin Deurloo; August 10th, 2020 at 09:49 AM.

  8.    #58
    Forum Addict elton williams's Avatar
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    Had this one again yesterday. How about fixing shafts so they don't cut things in previous phases?
    It's been a common complaint for years and it's still broken.
    Surely it's a simple fix?!

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