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Thread: Office Standards -Line Styles

  1.    #1
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    Office Standards -Line Styles

    We are having a difficult time deciding on an office standard for line styles. would any of you be willing to share how you have your line styles set up in template?

    TIA,
    Christiana

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    "If you build it, they will..." use them. Meaning Detail Item families (line based). Use drafting lines sparingly as you cannot keynote them. I promote that if drafting lines are need (in details) to use the ootb ones (Thin Lines, Lines, Medium Lines, Wide Lines, Hidden Lines, Overhead, etc...) that are adjusted well in the template. Then if you have to create some (per project needs), name Line Styles by purpose especially if they will be used as model lines. For the "exception to the rule" (other generic uses) I name them as such "(Line Pattern used)_(Pen Weights 3-16)_(Color, if appl.)".
    Also, keep in mind to skip Pen 1-2 as the are hard-coded to surface/ceiling patterns.

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    I try to have as few line styles set up as possible. We have a Legend in our Template that lists examples, their names, line weight, line pattern, and a description of where to use it. If you put it in the Template it gets passed on to everyones project and no one can saythat they didnt see it.

    Ive been converting hundreds of our CAD details over to Revit and those use AIA standard layers with names like G-DTL-HEAVY, etc. For the sake of simplicity (and to give the CAD people something familiar) Ive kept the names of those imported line styles. So all told we probably have 20 or 25 line styles defined. Ive seen architectural models with hundreds of them defined and its a mess.
    Last edited by Necro99; September 5th, 2020 at 03:58 PM.

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    Moderator DaveP's Avatar
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    We prefer to name out Line Styles by what they are, not what they look like.
    If you name them THIN, MEDIUM, HEAVY, that only helps if people know that Construction Limits are supposed to be shown using LONG DASH HEAVY and Not In Contract items are shown GREY-THIN-DASHED.
    Someone new to the office is likely to make up their own.
    But if you name them things like
    CONSTRUCTION LIMITS
    N.I.C.
    People don't have to think about the details or how it's supposed to look.
    They just look for what it is.
    Yes, you'll end up with several Line Styles that look the same, but so what? There are probably a lot of Styles already and a few more won't hurt.

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    You can categorized it by making it simple to understand. For me I would start with linetype follow by lineweight and then color. For example

    SOLID-1-BLACK
    SOLID-2-BLACK
    SOLID-3-BLACK

    HIDDEN-1-BLACK
    HIDDEN-3-RED

    CENTER-1-GREY
    CENTER-2-BLUE

    When user pick the linestyle, it will group together and it is easier to choose.

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    We do a combination of what has been shared above. Granted, the discussion about drawing detail lines vs modeling or using detail components aside, there is a time and place for defined line styles.....such as using the Linework tool. If you don't put a good system in place, staff will end up doing their own thing, and train goes off the rails very quickly.

    I agree that it is best to name according to category, if that is the application. Takes out *all* the guesswork. Like Dave, we have one for Limit of Work. Also some for SAF (self adhered flashing), WRB (weather barrier), ADA path-of-travel,.....

    For general linestyles, the names describe the properties, but we use the lineweight first, following by line pattern, then color. EX: 01 Solid, 03 Hidden 1/16", 05 Solid Grey 128, etc... All linestyles are assumed to be black unless noted otherwise.

    I highly recommend making it explicitly clear the exact properties of the style, and don't just call it "Grey" or "Hidden". There has not been a single project i've seen where someone didn't do something cute like "01 SOLID GREY", "01 SOLID LT GREY", "01 SOLID LIGHT GREY", "01 SOLID DK GREY", etc...with no indication on what RGB was assigned. For all we know, each of those could be Grey 128/128/128. When it isn't clear to the team what it is, they start creating their own stuff. Same goes with Hidden Lines. Is it 1/16" or 1/8"? Don't get me started on the "Thin Lines", "Fine Lines", Extra Fine Lines", "Super Extra Fine Lines". I say that in jest, but i've seen it time and time again.


    Jonathan Ludwig
    Steinberg Hart

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    Administrator Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Im looking back at the OG "Building a Revit Template" blog post and Forum post i wrote almost a decade ago, and it says my method went something like this: Note that Line Styles and Line Patterns and Object Styles and Line Weights all get done at the same time, for me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Classic Twiceroadsfool
    16. Object Styles / Linestyles / Lineweights. Linestyles, I do the same thing as Revit patterns. I don’t call it “Dash” I call it “Demolition.” I don’t call it Hidden, I call it “Casework- Plan rep.” Do I end up with redundant Linetypes? Im sure I do. Who cares? Purpose Built = people don’t use them incorrectly. As for Object Styles and Lineweights… I use a rather lengthy and wasteful procedure ive outlined elsewhere, but it works well. At the end of the explanation, youll see that I mention doing this last. I know lineweights are the firs tthing people notice about revit, but its true: Save it til last. Or at least, last in the firs tround of items you do. The reason being: When you make content, you will see linestyles, lineweights, and on and on. When you start this, youll realize you want to open every single family to check them, and streamline them. It’s a hassle. But here it is quoted:


    Start with Object Styles. Decide what should be darker or lighter RELATIVE to one another. (And i get rid of at least half of the 16. 16 is just nuts. 8 is plenty, IMHO. Then i use the other 8 for super huge stuff like Titleblock lines). So lets say i have 8 numbers. I assign the OS cuts and projections to 2-8 (keeping 1 for hatch).
    Then when im done with Object Styles (pass 1), i go and do a plan detail. With modeled objects, detail components, stuff in projection, stuff thats cut. And i duplicate it, 10 times. I change it to ten different scales. I plot it. i look at it. Theyre not all going to look good. So i check the CONTRAST between the items. If i dont like the CONTRAST, i readjust the OS (pass 2), and go back to print.


    Once im happy with the CONTRAST, i print my OS settings, and go scale to scale, with that pesky lineweight chart. This line is too light. What is it? A cut wall. Thats a 7. How thick is a 7 at this scale? Make it thicker. Rinse and reprint. And do it again, and do it again. For all of the scales (pass 1). Its not necessarily true that just because the scale gets bigger the lines should too, but sometimes, it is. So you have to monkey with it, for every single scale.
    When i get that one pesky sheet of details to look decent, i revisit OS (pass 3). Anything there i want to revisit? If im happy with them, i do a wall section. Print it at a bunch of scales. Check it, it shouldnt need as much as the plan details did, but it may need some adjustments (LW pass 2). Make some.
    Decide which adjustments need to be project wide in the OS/LW, and which ones you want View Templates to override (i dont like using VT's this way, so i try to avoid it).
    I also find you have to do it after your content is done, which is a double edged sword, in case you have to go back and adjust your content. But until you know how everything will be built, how do you know how it will plot?
    For the most part, this still holds true. A few things are different now, though.

    Object Style Names: Its still true that for OS Names, i use Purposes instead of Line Descriptions. (Its still "CASEWORK - CABINETS" instead of "CASEWORK - DASHED LINES") but for Line Styles, i am back to calling them by simpler terms. Reason being, they issue of unique Line Styles growing wildly out of control was drastically exacerbated, using purpose-named line styles. And- as i said earlier- "who cares?" Well, not me. BUT, it also was fruitless, since it meant the users were seeing hundreds of lines for slightly different purposes, and would then say "Oh i need a dashed line JUST for this type of light fixture and i dont have one so ill google how to make another because that must be right since thats what the template has..." and so on.

    So, that brings us to Line Styles. They have typically followed the same setup as our Lineweights, which is SLIGHTLY revised since the OG post a decade ago:

    We only have five real lineweights, now. For the sake of this post, we can call them LW1 (lightest), LW2, LW3, LW4, LW5 (darkest). In our Object Styles, these are keyed as Revit Lineweights 3/4/5/6/7, same as before (as 1/2 are reserved). What HAS changed, since then, happened recently, when MThiessens joined Parallax Team: We were rehashing two issues simultaneously:

    1. Our Breakline Detail Component (which was nothing special)
    2. Our Lineweight table in general (which we just completely revised, for a number of reasons).

    Melissa brought up the complexities of Detail Components / Detail items, vs General Annotations/Symbols: The latter's lineweights dont scale/adjust, the formers do. So if you have DC's and GA's that need to align, lineweight wise, you have a problem, unless youve set up your entire template to have non-sliding lineweights (which you can do, of course). Instead, Melissa came up with an awesome idea:

    Revit Lineweight 1 - used for Surface Patterns
    Revit Lineweight 2 - used for Ceiling Patterns
    Revit Lineweight 3 - Adjusts per scale, our "LW1"
    Revit Lineweight 4 - Adjusts per scale, our "LW2"
    Revit Lineweight 5 - Adjusts per scale, our "LW3"
    Revit Lineweight 6 - Adjusts per scale, our "LW4"
    Revit Lineweight 7 - Adjusts per scale, our "LW5"

    Revit Lineweight 8 - Adjusts per scale, our "LW6 (rarely used, non standard)"
    Revit Lineweight 9 - Adjusts per scale, our "LW7 (rarely used, non standard)"
    Revit Lineweight 10 - Adjusts per scale, our "LW8 (rarely used, non standard)"
    Revit Lineweight 11 - Adjusts per scale, our "LW9 (rarely used, non standard)"

    Revit Lineweight 12 - Fixed Lineweight at all scales, our "LW1"
    Revit Lineweight 13 - Fixed Lineweight at all scales, our "LW2"
    Revit Lineweight 14 - Fixed Lineweight at all scales, our "LW3"
    Revit Lineweight 15 - Fixed Lineweight at all scales, our "LW4"
    Revit Lineweight 16 - Fixed Lineweight at all scales, our "LW5"

    So, 12-16 repeat the same lineweights as 3-7, except the Lineweight values in the LW Table are identical at all scales, for 12-16.

    So, in the example of the Break Line, where portions of it are a GA and portions are a DC, the DC portions are simply set to 12-16, so they always match the GA. But it also means if some clients want everything set up so lineweights "dont scale at all," they can be converted from 3-7 to 12-16, with little conseuqence.

    Lineweights themselves: I hadnt taken a hardcore look at the Lineweight Table since 2016, when I was in the 3rd or 4th revision of the Parallax Template. EDIT: Looks like it was a partial update and revision in May of 2018. But, we are taking a look at them now. While this is a super rough approximation, it looks like our Starting Lineweights for this latest revision, will be:

    LW Number Pen Width (") Pen Width (mm)
    [COLOR=#40e0d0]1[/COLOR] [COLOR=#40e0d0].0030"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#40e0d0].076mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#40e0d0]2[/COLOR] [COLOR=#40e0d0].0050"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#40e0d0].127mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ff0000]3[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000].0030"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000].076mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ff0000]4[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000].0050"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000].127mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ff0000]5[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000].0070"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000].177mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ff0000]6[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000].0100"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000].254mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ff0000]7[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000].0130"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000].330mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ffa500]8[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ffa500].0160"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ffa500].406mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ffa500]9[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ffa500].0190"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ffa500].483mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ffa500]10[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ffa500].0220"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ffa500].559mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ffa500]11[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ffa500].0250"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ffa500].635mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#008000]12[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000].0030"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000].076mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#008000]13[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000].0050"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000].127mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#008000]14[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000].0070"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000].177mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#008000]15[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000].0100"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000].254mm[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#008000]16[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000].0130"[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000].330mm[/COLOR]


    Thats our current benchmark, at 1/8". The green values are the same at all scales, of course. The red values fluctuate up and down, at scales other than 1/8". Your mileage may vary, depending on Printers and Printer Drivers, of course.

    [COLOR=#ff0000]EDIT: This ended up being our lineweights at 1/4". Final table farther down in thread.[/COLOR]
    Last edited by Twiceroadsfool; September 11th, 2020 at 07:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Melissa brought up the complexities of Detail Components / Detail items, vs General Annotations/Symbols: The latter's lineweights dont scale/adjust, the formers do. So if you have DC's and GA's that need to align, lineweight wise, you have a problem, unless youve set up your entire template to have non-sliding lineweights (which you can do, of course). Instead, Melissa came up with an awesome idea:
    Great job Melissa! Heck of an idea... and now I want more than 16 lineweights! lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMcDowellJr View Post
    Great job Melissa! Heck of an idea... and now I want more than 16 lineweights! lol
    Not me. I could still give up 8/9/10/11 and not miss them. And 1/2 are technicalities. 10 is plenty.

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    Can I just say that this makes so much sense? I've recently been looking at our office line weights and had struggled with the Detail Component / GA issue and this seems like a great idea. It also gives a use to the last few line weights and still allows for using the thick but rare line weights.

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