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Thread: Stair thread depth for winder or spiral stairs

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    Stair thread depth for winder or spiral stairs

    Where I live, thread depth is calculated at a certain distance from the outer boundary of the stair, usually 300 mm. The thread depth seems to always calculate at the center of the stair run which is fine for straight runs, but not for anything else. The only option I have found is to convert the run and manually edit the risers to be a set distance apart at a certain point, which I obviously don't want to be doing..

    In my image I have a thread depth of 250 mm, but calculating the depth at the center of the run results in a stair that is too large. Is it not possible to change the location of the stair path without converting the stair?

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    Moderator Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    That 300mm sounds like a Dutch rule. Making a Dutch stairs with the top and bottom at an angle (boven en onder kwart) in Revit sucks I never got one the exact way I wanted it to be and that mainly the 2 support beams that always are weird. I usually either make it from a sketch, or make it as a Generic Model all from scratch or get the stairs company to do it for me
    Last edited by Robin Deurloo; January 4th, 2021 at 10:28 AM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Deurloo View Post
    That 300mm sounds like a Dutch rule. Making a Dutch stairs with the top and bottom at an angle (boven en onder kwart) in Revit sucks I never got one the exact way I wanted it to be and that mainly the 2 support beams that always are weird. I usually either make it from a sketch, of make it as a Generic Model all from scratch or get the stairs company to do it for me
    Swedish, actually

    The problem is the stair company usually starts their drawings when ours are close to being finished CDs and we can't wait that long to have a structural object in place. Are all stair depths in the US calculated from the center of the run?

    With spiral stairs we can work around it by setting a smaller thread depth that equals to our desired depth at a certain point, but winding stairs have parallell threads as well which makes them too short.

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    Moderator Robin Deurloo's Avatar
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    There are stair companies here in Holland that will make your stair at an early stage of the project if you need something that is not standard. You just give them floor to floor height and the size of the opening in the floor.

    Of course if you need something really special this won't work and you will have to give them more detailed drawings.

    You can also get their standard residential stairs from their website most of the time that are all made to the Dutch building code.
    Last edited by Robin Deurloo; January 4th, 2021 at 10:29 AM. Reason: typo

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    Forum Addict willsud's Avatar
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    This is very interesting, thanks. I spend a lot of time designing custom stairs in Revit (in the UK) - mostly squeezing in stairs with 'winders' or tapered steps, mixed with straight steps, into tight domestic situations such as loft accesses. I have not seen this Swedish parameter in stair design before but it is always interesting to know what others do

    I recall that when the stair design tool in Revit was updated some versions ago comments in the forum highlighted differences between USA and some European countries with tapered steps and where they could be used. (The gradually tapering steps often found in stair designs in Germany and Austria always fascinate me when on holiday there as we would not be able to do that in the UK I think).

    A recent problem I have had with my stair designs on small, tight for space, domestic jobs (and other architects locally have reported the same experience) is that the stair manufacturer tells the client that we do not know what we are doing and the stair does not meet UK Building Regulations.

    We have discovered that this is due to the stair manufacturers using computer controlled machinery to build the stair, the operatives are not skilled craftsmen and believe what they are told by the stair-making software that our designs do not meet Building Regulations. Thus it is a problem of software design not being able to cope with something non-standard

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    A lot of interesting information there, thanks. It's probably not realistic to expect Autodesk to add and keep up with the standards of every country in the world.. however every parameter that is affected by national differences (such as stair depth calculations in this case) should be editable by the user.

    Why bother developing the already complicated stair tool if in the end it is limited in one way or another to a select group of their customers. I'm not a stair manufacturer, I do a basic stair sketch and leave the rest to them.

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    Member d.stairmand's Avatar
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    I'm from New Zealand & we also have the 300mm Offset Rule for Spiral Stairs.
    I have done a few of these of late & have managed to make them using the default tools

    All I did was manually using Detail Lines, Draw up where the Spiral Stair is going to be, using the 300mm Offset Rules.
    Then measure how long the central arc is (as this is what revit uses) & then adjust my assembled stair to suit.

    Note that I have also had a few instances where I have had to convert the Stair to Old-School Lines, as my stair treads come off tangental from a central column, not centrally from a Radial point

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    Quote Originally Posted by d.stairmand View Post
    I'm from New Zealand & we also have the 300mm Offset Rule for Spiral Stairs.
    I have done a few of these of late & have managed to make them using the default tools

    All I did was manually using Detail Lines, Draw up where the Spiral Stair is going to be, using the 300mm Offset Rules.
    Then measure how long the central arc is (as this is what revit uses) & then adjust my assembled stair to suit.

    Note that I have also had a few instances where I have had to convert the Stair to Old-School Lines, as my stair treads come off tangental from a central column, not centrally from a Radial point
    Yep, we do the same for spiral stairs. Although we always have to adjust them later as every manufacturer has their own templates. Also every spiral stair I've seen where I live has the tread tangentially from the column edge and not the center as you say.

    So my conclusion from all of this has to be that it is impossible to do anything about this. Only solution is to keep drawing stupid lines, for now.

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