Dimension Redo - Every Week

[AtlanticViews]

Hi all,

I am working on a typical project where we have a structural consultant's model linked into our architectural model. It is a sizable project, so to help with coordination the project manger wants all concrete column sizes in the structural model dimensioned on our architectural plans. We have done this. However, when a new structural model is received and reloaded all our radial dimensions of round columns get deleted. Dimensions to square columns all remain. We know that columns have not changed sizes or type.

I really want to avoid having to lay all these dimensions over again or do a copy paste from an archived model every week...

If anyone has any insight as to why this might be happening it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
AV

[CADiva]

How are you replacing the structural model? Are you using "Reload from" or another method?

[snowyweston]

First off, welcome to the forum!

Second, and please forgive the condescension, it's generally considered unwise practice dimensioning the work of others - from a Revit standpoint (as you have already found) but more from a risk perspective. Your S.Eng. should be documenting their sizes.

But I accept that the real world sometimes doesn't always work that way - so perhaps you can consider delimiting risk, and reducing the work, another way...

Tags and/or schedules. Create a Str.Col. category tag that reads & reports the column size - and/or "just" the mark/type-mark that you then present in a schedule.


Again, personally, I would never do either, and think you'd be crazy to entertain this.

Mind, you'd also do well to quiz your S.Eng. how they are making their edits between model shares - dimensions don't delete themselves by default, they delete when their associated element (the str.col.) is... i.e. it sounds like your S.Eng. is "delete-replacing" not "edit-evolving" their model.

[elton williams]

We model our own structure over the top of the linked structural model and dimension to our own elements.
Arch is responsible for setouts and our drawings laid over the structural model are how we do coordination.

[snowyweston]

Do you use copy monitor to place your elements Elton?

Some jobs see us more engaged in proposing/documenting structure; leading all too often to an endless circle jerk of revisioning and checking and markup and comms. I find it a complete and utter nonsense.

[Twiceroadsfool]

I'll be the jerk and ask the question, i guess:

What exactly does your Project manager think you are gaining, by having them dimensions on the Architectural plans?

BTW, the question doesnt have anything to do with Revit, or its mishaps, and i DO agree with you that its a mishap: It should 100% leave your dimensions alone, through reloading a link. So, im not asking 'what the value is' simply because the software wont do it. Even when i was drafting in AutoCAD, there is no way i would have ever dimensioned a Structural Column in an arch drawing.

The contractor SHOULD be getting that dimension from a Structural Drawing. And heaven forbid the dimensions are different: At BEST (while there is probably some trashy CYA note in your documents that says *in the event of any discrepancy the GC must RFI*) its still lame to make them issue an RFI about it, and at WORST they build from it, and its the wrong size, and now there is a serious life safety issue.

There just isnt a value add, to doing it.

Having said that: You arent wrong, at all. I just tried it here, in RVT 2021.1.1. If i have Dimensions on rectangular objects, and i unload a structural file, the dimensions remain (they hide, until i reload the structural file). If i have RADIAL dimensions, however, Revit warns me that its deleting them the MOMENT i unload the Linked model, which is 100% whacked. It shouldnt do that.

Now, here it gets more interesting:

1. Radius Dimension: Deletes itself when the link is unloaded.
2. Diameter Dimension: Deletes itself when the link is unloaded.
3. Aligned dimension, from Centerline to "Left" or "Right" reference in the Columns (same dim values as Radius or Diameter) disappear when link is unloaded, and come back, exactly how i would expect.

It has to be some glitch with the R and D dimensions... Going to capture a video of it and send it to the Factory.

[elton williams]

Do you use copy monitor to place your elements Elton?

Some jobs see us more engaged in proposing/documenting structure; leading all too often to an endless circle jerk of revisioning and checking and markup and comms. I find it a complete and utter nonsense.

Totally depends on the project and consultant teams. I tend not to copy/monitor because I'm all over it everyday, and you cant C/M beams. Maybe things in general work differently here but our design engineer models (all trades) are often complete trash and only contain generic information. EG Structural Engineers only ever show tagged location lines for steel members instead of real sized 3D elements, rarely will they have setout dimensions except for specific conditions or in detailing (their details also usually not in 3D). Their concrete will be actual sized columns/beams/slabs but consultants can never keep up with the Arch. changes (usually budget constraints) and there is no way we could use their Revit models for CD. The sub-contractors shop drawings are used as the real thing during CD and even they get it wrong fairly often. That also makes it a bit more difficult to coordinate in Revit as steel detailers usually use Autocad or something else that Revit hates (not withstanding using Navis etc.).

We always issue dimensioned concrete setouts which include set-downs, slab/beam & column locations (but not sizes) as formal documents, but typically we don't issue "dimensioned steel drawings for construction", although a fair whack of time is spent doing steel setout overlays during coordination & shop drawing reviews, to show them where they are getting it wrong. Things like trusses we usually let them go for it, but we still model a lot (not all) of it to check for clashes. Either way it comes down to accuracy and it still comes out of the project manager's budget.

There is always fires to put out the way things seem to work here, mainly due to project managers trying to be cheap, not engaging consultants on time or properly, silly deadlines etc. - and architects constantly changing things never helps .

Jubilee Place is one project I have been working on for about the last 18 months, a steel diagrid commercial tower now under construction in Brisbane and it has been a tough job to coordinate the steel and services together within the Arch. design constraints. Keeps me very employed though

There's some images and a couple of very cheesy promo's of the project here - https://jubileeplace.com.au/
The attached photo was taken by a colleague on the way to work this morning.

[AtlanticViews]

I'll be the jerk and ask the question, i guess:

What exactly does your Project manager think you are gaining, by having them dimensions on the Architectural plans?

The contractor SHOULD be getting that dimension from a Structural Drawing. And heaven forbid the dimensions are different: At BEST (while there is probably some trashy CYA note in your documents that says *in the event of any discrepancy the GC must RFI*) its still lame to make them issue an RFI about it, and at WORST they build from it, and its the wrong size, and now there is a serious life safety issue.

Precisely! The trashy note is definitely in our drawings. Rapid changes made to the project by the developer to unit layouts is causing us to switch columns from square/rectangular to round as they are pouring concrete. Our PM is trying to bring forth any discrepancy between our drawings (which are the struct engineers columns anyways), the structural plans, and the structural column schedules. I will add - the PM's background is in AutoCAD and they have added these dims on previous projects with another company. I totally agree that we should not be dimensioning these for the reasons you have outlined.

As I am not in a position to end the dimensioning of columns I guess I will dimension these one last time using the Aligned dimension.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and to test out other dimensions!

[AtlanticViews]

We save over the old struct model with the new one. If our file is open we just use "Reload" as the path hasn't changed.

[CADiva]

We save over the old struct model with the new one. If our file is open we just use "Reload" as the path hasn't changed.

Somewhat unrelated, but do you save (archive) previous versions in another location? I think I started out doing what you do until I discovered how well "Reload From" works.

Here's the protocol we use:
1) Folder for consultant drawings
2) Save consultant drawings in sub-folders by date (so we can refer back to them)
3) Use "Reload From" to load the new model in. This remembers the V/G settings and applies them to the new file, allowing for having "placeholder" models in a template that already have filters and linked model overrides set as desired.

BUT ....

I think Twiceroadsfool has identified the actual issue, which is unrelated to how you reload an updated model.