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Thread: Concrete beam schedules?

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    Moderator LeanneZ's Avatar
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    Concrete beam schedules?

    How are you scheduling your concrete beams?

    This is what we were using in ACAD... Do you have anything similar in RST?
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    Senior Member JBZ's Avatar
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    Not similar but 'superior'.
    We use "Structural Framing" Schedules.
    These report every member in the project.
    Using filtering & organization, etc. these can be very powerful...and always correct.

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    French Moderator jbenoit44's Avatar
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    Hum, about reinforcement, I would not say superior.
    You will need manual input to achieve this with Rst.

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    Moderator LeanneZ's Avatar
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    I looked at Structural Framing Schedules and I'm having a difficult time trying to get several lines (different types of reinforcing) for each Beam Type.

    Can you clue me in to how you go about Scheduling your Concrete Framing to be able to include all the different types? I realize there may be a different workflow to scheduling these beams in Revit; I'm just trying to figure out what others are doing and trying to see if it's going to work for us.

    (We're used to using a Beam Placement Detail, like the one attached, along with our schedules.)
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    Senior Member JBZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbenoit44 View Post
    Hum, about reinforcement, I would not say superior.
    You will need manual input to achieve this with Rst.
    jbenoit44

    Ho Hum,
    Being that I have used ACAD since 1985 and Revit since 2000 and have created a lot of projects with each I would say Revit is superior in every way; but let's leave that alone for now (you can contact me directly if you care to debate their merits).

    Beams would be scheduled distinctly from Reinforcing, etc. In Revit components are separate from one another, just like in construction: first the rebar is laid, then the concrete poured.

    As to LeanneZ questions; if the reinforcing is modeled simply create a live Detail Section and you're golden...That's what we do.
    If the model doesn't contain reinforcing (not really recommended) then a Drafting View Detail could be used; but that opens you up to the inevitability of extra coordination, then possibly errors & omissions and unwanted distinctions from the true model...

    Schedules available in Revit (Structural items bold):
    <Multi-Category>
    Air Terminals
    Analytical Beams
    Analytical Braces
    Analytical Columns
    Analytical Floors
    Analytical Foundation Slabs
    Analytical Isolated Foundations
    Analytical Wall Foundations
    Analytical Walls
    Areas (Gross Building)
    Areas (Rentable)
    Assemblies
    Cable Tray Fittings
    Cable Tray Runs
    Cable Trays
    Casework
    Ceilings
    Communication Devices
    Conduit Fittings
    Conduit Runs
    Conduits
    Curtain Panels
    Curtain Systems
    Curtain Wall Mullions
    Data Devices
    Doors
    Duct Accessories
    Duct Fittings
    Duct Insulations
    Duct Linings
    Duct Placeholders
    Duct Systems
    Ducts
    Electrical Circuits
    Electrical Equipment
    Electrical Fixtures
    Fire Alarm Devices
    Flex Ducts
    Flex Pipes
    Floors
    Slab Edges
    Furniture
    Furniture Systems
    HVAC Zones
    Lighting Devices
    Lighting Fixtures
    Mass
    Mass Exterior Wall
    Mass Floor
    Mass Glazing
    Mass Interior Wall
    Mass Opening
    Mass Roof
    Mass Skylight
    Mass Zone
    Mechanical Equipment
    Nurse Call Devices
    Parking
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    Posts
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBZ View Post
    jbenoit44

    Ho Hum,
    Being that I have used ACAD since 1985 and Revit since 2000 and have created a lot of projects with each I would say Revit is superior in every way; but let's leave that alone for now (you can contact me directly if you care to debate their merits).

    Beams would be scheduled distinctly from Reinforcing, etc. In Revit components are separate from one another, just like in construction: first the rebar is laid, then the concrete poured.
    I'm sure both the OP and Julien were aware of the fact that rebar can be scheduled. The question however was, can it be scheduled combined with the columns...
    Frankly, I don't know enough about Rebar (scheduling) to answer this.

    Does it show up in a MC-schedule?
    Can you tie custom shared parameters to ootb dimensions?

  7. #7
    Senior Member JBZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdradvies View Post
    I'm sure both the OP and Julien were aware of the fact that rebar can be scheduled. The question however was, can it be scheduled combined with the columns...
    Frankly, I don't know enough about Rebar (scheduling) to answer this.

    Does it show up in a MC-schedule?
    Can you tie custom shared parameters to ootb dimensions?
    Martijn,
    If the question was actually:
    "can it be scheduled combined with the columns"
    Then the simple answer would have been: No.

    I might have added 'but who cares if they are separate; as long as the information exists and is correct... they can always be close together on sheets!!!' I am not trying to be an A hole but we must allow our (AEC) processes to evolve and chasing graphics is antithetical to that in this case.

    "Does it show up in a MC-schedule?" Yes both show up. While filtering can get them isolated together they won't be next to one another like the CAD image wants; AND there are bigger limitations (as you know) to what is included in MC schedules; so even though they can schedule both (technically) MC schedules aren't the way to go for their needs.

    "Can you tie custom shared parameters to ootb dimensions?" MC schedules do not expose all of the parameters (like length, etc) so MC schedule would not work so the question becomes moot (as I read this question as tying into an MC schedule).

    The originating question was: "How are you scheduling your concrete beams?" This set a presumption of needing to know HOW...nothing about rebar except in the image... Sorry if I read it exactly as it appeared :-)

    Place the Beam & Reinforcing schedules next to, or near to each other and move on.

    Develop a BIM workflow that while it may not look exactly like prior (manual) schedules, the quality of the information derived from the model will make such change be so beneficial to the project & firm's bottom line ($$$) that we'll laugh about chasing CAD graphics like these.

    When weighing against the cost of chasing graphics for graphics sake I will suggest informational fidelity every time.

    Rather than trying to find work-arounds because Revit or BIM project/production work "LOOKS" different than what we may be used to; if we focused on getting the information correct we'd be far better off.

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    @JBZ
    I think I understand what you're saying about essentially having TWO schedules to cover the Framing and the Rebar, separately.

    ...
    We've yet to model a concrete building, but the time is coming...

    Our most recent concrete building was started before I came here, and was in-process when I started. For documentation, my small group of coworkers were using ACAD. I'm looking at the process I would use to model this building in Revit, because I know we'll get more, similar buildings and they will be modeled in Revit when they come.

    This particular project was a 7-story hospital with hundreds of differently designed beams per floor. The workflow my engineers are currently using is that they design the concrete beams in a separate analysis program. They get the output that we (CAD personnel) manually type into spreadsheets. On a 7-story building, we probably have about a thousand different beams. I'm having a difficult time imagining modeling all the rebar for thousands of concrete beams! {{overwhelmed}}

    Is there a way that the spreadsheets could drive the modeling of the beams in RST? That would be ultimate. Have you found that your engineers resist new workflows (because I have) or simplify a building's design?

    Maybe I'm just stressing out before I actually need to work on this type of project in RST?

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    Well, if your Engineers are using RSA2012, then they will be more then happy to have the structure modeled in Revit.
    I don't think that linking RST with a spreadsheet is possible nor plausible.
    The future looks like this:
    Model building in RAC->Model structural elements in RST -> Sent it to RSA (or other structural program) or online analysis "Project <something>"->Compute reinforcement and element size in RSA (Project <something>)->Resend it to RST for drafting->Print it for contractor
    I'm only half way the road (Modeled in RST and send it to Robot for analysis).

  10. #10
    French Moderator jbenoit44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBZ View Post
    jbenoit44

    Ho Hum,
    Being that I have used ACAD since 1985 and Revit since 2000 and have created a lot of projects with each I would say Revit is superior in every way; but let's leave that alone for now (you can contact me directly if you care to debate their merits).

    Beams would be scheduled distinctly from Reinforcing, etc. In Revit components are separate from one another, just like in construction: first the rebar is laid, then the concrete poured.
    I agree that Revit is in many ways superior to Cad world, not in every way.....yet. I'm sure it will be one day. And I'm involved.

    You should ask people like concrete precast elements drafters, curtain wall designers, reinforcement drafters, steel framing drafters if Revit is profficient in detailling for shop drawings, I'm pretty sure they would say no. And even more if you compare Revit to other softs dealing with structure stuff.

    And as a major evidence, you should notice that Autodesk puts Autocad Structural Detailing in the Revit Structure Suite, still in 2012.

    About rebars and pouring, following your thoughts, we could have a schedule for hooks, a schedule for rebars, a schedule for stirrups, one for connections etc....

    This is definitely not a way to follow for professionals, Autodesk knows, and works to improve this, trying to reach the same level of detailing efficiency as other Pro-ware.

    We have to be patient, for sure I am.

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